Snorting towards extasy
Jan. 14th, 2004 10:48 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
itsallovernow![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small}
sorlklewis, I've misplaced the wine dark sea icon!! I must retrieve it. You'd think it would be hard to lost something like that, wouldn't you?rubberneck The monkeysex is plotted (it's in line behind the edit, but plotted it is). I believe it will involve maraschino cherries. Do you suppose I should post an inappropriate use of a sort of food substance warning? Behold the snark as it wibbles on the wathe. (Dude, also too lazy to look up the actual Carroll quote).I have only . My normal response of "bite my shiny metal ass," thank you Bender, is considered rude by many. (And, BTW, I never got my Rygel/ Bender!!! This is a pairing to rule the universe. Why am I the only one who thinks so:)
I don't think warnings are inappropriate. Honestly. They can be a genuine courtesy. I also think most readers are not as stupid as we assume. And why one's employer would be more scandalized by you reading about a fictional character getting fucked on a desk chair as opposed to gathering rosebuds, I'm not really sure. By all means warn your readers. But give them a little credit, and folks, take a little personal responsability for your own actions.
And yes, it's my journal. And yes, I know that people under the age of 18 occasionally read it. I'm guessing they've seen the word fuck before. I know they've seen it here.
Can I request bad grammar, poor characterization and general dumb assery warnings?
Wow, perhaps I've had a little too much coffee. Or perhaps I'm frustrated by the line edit that won't end. I won't let myself write the epilogue until the edit's done. Snort. Yeah, that's gonna last as a goal.
Things I have learned this week: Rose's lime juice and ice make Tecate in a can almost palatable. Almost. And as I said to
crankygrrl, I've been reading too much Tom Robbins this week. I want loopy, lusty, kitchen implement driven prose with a side of snark, and a helping of good old fashined boinking on table tops with a little funk and a little philosophy thrown in for good measure.
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:02 am (UTC)Oh! Oh! Pleeeeease! Or a blacklist!
*eyeroll*
My brain hurts. Can we just make the stupid people go away?
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:06 am (UTC)I second that motion.
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:17 am (UTC)hee hee. Sorry, that kind of escaped:)
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:11 am (UTC)See, now that's always been my theory:) Evolution's supposed to take care of stupidity, but I think we, as a species select too much for mediocrity. I'm just gonna have to find the uzi in the closet:)
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:27 am (UTC)"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and *that* is the basic building block of the universe."
But then there are times when I stop and think: If all the stupid people up and went *poof*, who would we laugh at?
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:29 am (UTC)And dude, love the icon!
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:04 am (UTC)I don't think warnings are inappropriate.
Oh, I completely agree. The thing is, no one reads them. And in many cases, by specifically warning about certain aspects, it may very well ruin the story. I figure the rating (in the post title, especially if it's R of NC-17), along with a general, "it's dark", "people die", "there's sex", "there's slash", etc. should be good enough, and I've always done that. In fact, to my knowledge, everyone I know has done that.
But this? This current thing? I think it's ridiculous.
Can I request bad grammar, poor characterization and general dumb assery warnings?
Hee! I like that idea. I like it a lot.
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:09 am (UTC)And exactly. My theroy, don't bitch at me if you didn't have the sense to read the warnings. And did they miss the last four years of this show, with the torture and the mind frells and the fucking and the stealing, the whoring, the boozing and the blowing up of shit?
But yes, I'm not putting detailed warnings on Blue Eyes if it ever gets posted - but it's cause I'm contrary:)
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:24 am (UTC)People in XF were outraged that Maria Nicole didn't put a character death warning on "Subcutaneous". Which, if you've read the story, is ludicrous. As the point of the story -- well, one of them anyway -- is the way that it comes out of nowhere. "On the fourth day, she died."
And then the story moves on from there, while you're gasping in shock -- just like the characters.
I've seen requests for "warnings" like: "Aeryn/Other but then J/A so don't shoot me! And CD but not really, it has a happy ending!"
I don't get a sex and violence label on my novels, and I pay for those. Why should someone demand that I tell them in advance the content of a story that I'm providing them for free?
There are warnings and there are warnings. And anyone with half a brain pays attention to the rating, and the writer, and the summary. But detailed warnings and keywords spoil the plot and make the baby jesus cry.
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:33 am (UTC)Exactly. Although I must say, in typical hypocritical fashion, that I do appreciate warnings on stories that include rape - but, for the most part, I have a strong enough sense of the authors I typically read, and typically don't read to use my common sense and good judgement.
Wow, look at that, making a decision like an adult:)
You pays yer money and you takes yer chances!! (And I love Subcutaneous. I'm feeling a need to go reread a few of the more stellar XF stories, now).
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:36 am (UTC)Exactly! I mean, fer cryin' outloud, the rating and who the writer is should be a huge clue as to what they're going to get. You except something from a Kubrick film, just like you except something from a Maayan fic. All of this? It's just pure insanity.
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 11:46 am (UTC)I think what started out as a simple: "Please adhere to posting policies of a rating, summary and disclaimer" (the DISCLAIMER being the important bit) has turned into moral outrage. Blah. There are just some nitpicky people who want to be warned ahead of time when MOST of fandom ignores the liner notes.
And note, not a bit of the discussion following the initial post has ANYTHING to do with disclaimers! (well, one or two, but STILL!)
See, 'cause, it's the lack of disclaimer (as simple as a Not Mine, really) that can get you into trouble, not the labeling of a fic that's NC-17 or R or G. Dear frelling lord. Sites have been shut down (not that it is likely to happen here, the PTB are pretty frelling nice about the whole thing) for lesser offenses.
Anyway.
off soapbox, into the laser beam (I really need to work today)
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Date: 2004-01-14 11:54 am (UTC)Like I said, pure insanity.
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Date: 2004-01-14 12:04 pm (UTC)Hmm. I don't know that I'd even agree with you on this. Disclaimers are standard, certainly. But if you read some of the legal analysis (see Tushnet, among others) most indications are that disclaimers don't really serve much purpose. Because the fic is available on the net for free and the writer isn't claiming to be Joss or Kemper or whoever.
I don't think there have been any instances where the presence or absence of a disclaimer can be shown to be a determining factor in whether a site got shut down. Usually it comes down to whether it's NC-17 or whether there are video clips or screen caps, about which producers are far more sensitive. Rowling doesn't like NC-17 fic, Anne Rice doesn't like any fic, and Paramount doesn't like vid clips: they would shut down those sites regardless of disclaimers.
Anyway, given that Henson went so far as to approve a fanfiction panel at the official Farscape con I find it highly unlikely that any Farscape sites are going to get shut down for showcasing fan creativity. At least, not until the franchise gets bought out by Paramount and turned into something else entirely *g*.
I do agree with you that the bulk of the discussion over there has focused on keywords, which are only suggested by the mods, not required. If however they start requiring detailed warnings, and if they require slash warnings, I may have to say something. Maybe.
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Date: 2004-01-14 12:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 12:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 11:48 am (UTC)This is one of my pet peeves -- warnings that ruin the story. And I hate it when people feel compelled to put them in because they don't want to deal with the potential backlash from a few complainers.
Frankly, if a character death or a certain pairing is so much more disturbing that someone feels a blanket R or NC-17 rating wasn't "good enough," I'm sorry. You don't get warnings at the front of *books* saying, "Oh, by the way, toward the middle, character #2 kicks off."
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Date: 2004-01-14 12:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 12:23 pm (UTC)And you!! Whatever you decide to do about your diss, do it knowing that it's your choice one way or another. You've got to decide the benefits versus the drawbacks and no one will think any less of you if you decide it's just not worth it. Life's too short (yes I know, more with the cliches) to be miserable about something like this!!
It's why I left grad school. I still have the residual guilt, the feeling that I disappointed someone, but aside from my own issues, the only person I disappointed was my advisor because he didn't want to train another undergraduate wrangler:)
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Date: 2004-01-14 01:27 pm (UTC)CM
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Date: 2004-01-14 02:11 pm (UTC)What I find unsurprisingly disappointing is that the thread became a discussion of how readers' feelings were hurt by the content of certain stories and that the writers should therefore carefully label all stories that might contain any content that is the least bit objectionable.
Repeat: I don't have a problem with ratings or disclaimers. But I don't do keywords and I don't do detailed warnings.
I put the story above everything. And I'm not about to tell my readers that the story contains certain elements, if the point of the story is that they don't know about those elements.
Finally, it strikes me as absurd that fans of Farscape -- a show that includes in its canon rape, genocide, torture, murder, miscegenation, and bisexuality -- should be so disturbed at stories that contain one or more of those elements. What show have they been watching, exactly?
It's a bit of a tempest, I expect, and it'll blow over. It's just more of the same old same old.
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Date: 2004-01-14 02:27 pm (UTC)But yeah. Just, yeah. And for further evidence, give Searose a visit. Because she's too damned clever, and doesn't once use the word dumb ass.
(And with that, I have fullfilled my stated goal to Cranky of using the phrase dumb ass everytime I post today. We all have to have goals right:)
*GASP*
Date: 2004-01-14 02:38 pm (UTC)Re: *GASP*
Date: 2004-01-14 02:39 pm (UTC)Re: *GASP*
Date: 2004-01-14 02:42 pm (UTC)Re: *GASP*
Date: 2004-01-14 02:45 pm (UTC)Re: *GASP*
Date: 2004-01-14 03:09 pm (UTC)Re: *GASP*
Date: 2004-01-14 02:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 04:34 pm (UTC)One where John and Aeryn skip through the fields hand-in-hand picking daisies perhaps?
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Date: 2004-01-14 02:17 pm (UTC)I think it's backlash at the general unwillingness of people, and I mean people as a collective, to bitch and moan and not take responsability for their actions. Also, the indication that people don't want to read something unless every possible base of objection has been covered. And the request for forther warnings just feels like an irritant, that's all.
CM, I know you want a livejournal account, right:) It's much more fun to comment with icons:)
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Date: 2004-01-14 09:38 pm (UTC)I have to say that I went back and read the thread on Kansas and only found a very polite and balanced discussion on which kinds of warnings should go on fics, including a discussion of surprise endings and not ruining them as well as whether or not the word slash should be included. I seems like a very tolerant and fair discussion.
Yes, some people might have asked for excessive warnings, but it doesn't mean writers have to do it. That's what a discussion is about, a give and take, throwing out ideas to get reactions. I'm sure if you went over there and voiced your objections, you'd only add to the discussion. I've always found people to be willing to discuss anything at Kansas. I don't always agree with them, but they're easy to talk to.
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Date: 2004-01-15 10:04 am (UTC)The thing is that my objection is the coddling, not the politeness, the lack of willingness to take responsability, and I'm not necessarily saying that was exhibited in the thread. But it tends to be a running theme, both within fandom and real life. People want everything spelled out for them. They don't want to risk and work and think and that just pisses me off in general and discussions that have elements of that tend to rile me up.
I didn't necessarily want to post anything at the boards because the discussion was thoughtful and polite. Eye rolling and unnecissarily hurting someone's feelings isn't going to facilitate discussion, and I'd rather be snarky in my own space and get it out of my system than direct it towards someone who maybe doesn't deserve it.
But your points are very well made and have a lot of merit. Thanks for weighing in!!
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Date: 2004-01-14 02:14 pm (UTC)Maybe it's just me...but I don't feel you've truly completed your fanfiction experience until you've run screaming for the Back button.
One of my biggest pet peeves with fanfiction is author notes that are nearly as long as the story they preface. Can we just get on with it?
I have been a good do-bee and gone back and added disclaimers to all my stories at Kansas. I had become very lax I'll admit it, but then I never seen much point in disclaimers. If TPTB and their high-priced lawyers choose to shut you down, no amount of "no harm no foul" protestations on anybody's part are going to save you or your website. But when I post my stories on Kansas I obligate myself to abide by their rules, so I will disclaim. But the indepth labelling--rating in the title, pairings, ect--not gonna happen. Cause people need to learn to resist the urge to be stupid and as long as we keep dumbing everything down at their command they're not gonna do it.
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Date: 2004-01-14 02:23 pm (UTC)Hee hee. And exactly. I firmly believe that the disclaimer is a necessary courtesy, not for legal reasons but for moral ones. No, they're not mine. However, I find it highly unlikely that I'm gonna get in more trouble for not having a disclaimer than I am for writing about the monkeysex hijinks.
And now I've gotten to use the week's two favorite phrases - monkeysex and dumb ass in a post without offending anyone:)
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Date: 2004-01-14 02:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 02:28 pm (UTC)Hee hee, and thank you!
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Date: 2004-01-14 03:29 pm (UTC)Everybody's said everything that needs to be said much more eloquently than I could possibly say it…and I quote:
Amen! ROFLMAO.
And Thea...50 points to you for your creative use of the words monkeysex and dumb ass. You do have a way with words! *vbg*
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Date: 2004-01-14 04:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 07:51 pm (UTC)WORD. On so many levels.
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Date: 2004-01-15 10:14 am (UTC)