itsallovernow: (Falling - by Saava)
[personal profile] itsallovernow
Walking by the Lucky store on my way to lunch, and I catch Bob Dylan's visage out of the corner of my eye. Resistance is futile, so I go inside and see two variations of Bob on pricey t-shirts. Sales boy told me the women's shirts had sold out in a snap. Gave him my name and number to call me when they were back in stock.

Yes, I'm willing to shell out $30 for a stylized t-shirt with my boy on the front. Wear him close to my heart, and shake my head and make plans to break into the store and steal the big ass banner that says "Stuck inside of Mobile with the Memphis blues again."

So distracted by visions of wearing Bob on my chest, that I almost plowed over Ashton Kutcher coming out of Art's Deli. Which made me giggle, because I was still dazed by Bob love and really, pretty boys on TV are only gonna distract me if a) they're not wearing bright blue tennis shoes and b) have been in space on TV:) Still, things like that make me love L.A.

Went to see World Without Sundays with [livejournal.com profile] sabine101 and [livejournal.com profile] sorlklewis and [livejournal.com profile] _maayan and [livejournal.com profile] lizlet. The band was great, the Roxy was the Roxy, and my hair fit right in, even if I felt too old and far too colorful in Levis a blue shirt and a green sweater. Apparently, my years of all black are behind me:) Hee.

The Mini is coming, oh yes it is, and I grow more excited, and sort of sweetly nostalgic for the return of Farscape. I really have come to terms, to peace with its absence, so this just feels like a warm blanket, something fresh and wrapping and lovely.

Which leads me to a few points that have little to do with the mini (sort of), and more to do with reaction to certain aspects of the series, namely the pregnancy issue.

I most definitely understand the trepidation that the issue will be handled badly, that things will be absurd or floofy or out of character, that the female lead will be reduced to nothing more than a receptacle for the child in either the eyes of the writers or the male lead.

This I get. But, I also think that in this particular circumstance, it isn't a bad thing, isn't a cop out. Three seasons of family issues, of Aeryn building a level of trust for the people around her, displaying compassion for the helpless, a fierce need to protect those without their own means of protection, of her own deep seeded desires to understand family, to have a taste of blood relations, and how can a pregnancy suddenly be looked at as a sign of weakness?

I wouldn't have had an issue with her deciding to terminate the pregnancy. Some of my favorite stories from the Season 3 hiatus have to do with that very choice. I wouldn't have found that out of character, but I also don't find the way that it was handled out of character either. I think introducing this new possibility for Aeryn was a risky choice, and I think it played out well.

Having a child is part of a series of choices that she has learned how to make since her exile. It is, in fact, one of the few choices that she's been allowed to make. She didn't choose to leave the Peacekeepers, and while she chose not to go back, many of her other choices were results of necessity or circumstance. Having a child was something proactive, something solely hers. Was it ill-advised? Probably, but that doesn't make it out of charcter or in fact a bad plot element. Life, death, birth and rebirth are issues that every great story addresses, and I don't find it a cop out that Farscape brought in the element of a child.

Aeryn's complex and difficult relationships with figures of authority, with her own parent and her concepts of parenthood and family and children have been themes almost since the beginning. She makes the choice to find out of she and John can reproduce, she makes a choice to seek out her father, to attempt a connection with her mother, to act as a surrogate parent to Talyn.

And I think that the choice (despite the improbable science:) to have the baby potentially be someone else's was interesting, as well as the choice to have it be something that doesn't have to show up and immediately start making it's physical presence known. The concept, the idea of a new life, is enough of a jolt, an entirely new element to bring in. I liked that there was some question of who's child it was, although that wasn't particularly suspenseful, but the fact that there was a question was a reminder that Aeryn is not a saint, that she's had past relationships, some of them with really bad endings. It's a reminder of her former life as a soldier, of the way that reproduction was handled and addressed within the context of that life. And the fact that she didn't choose, didn't have the time or opportunity, to release the stasis also means that having a child was something that hadn't yet become a priority, that it was still a question for her, and one that was tied into a specific relationship.

I have to say that I am in a sort of agreement with [livejournal.com profile] double_helix's feelings here (my instinctive agreement is a nodding and a yes, absolutely), I also think that the threat to a child is intensely primal. It's a cross-cultural fear, and while it may be an easy out, it's also a startling reality.

The threat that Scarrans posed to Peacekeepers and to females was well outlined far before Prayer. That doesn't mean that Aeryn's experience was less horrific, or less disturbing. But it makes sense in the context. A female enemy, and genre television certainly doesn't have a monopoly on the use of sexual or reproductive threats to intimidate or torture women. There's a reason that those things are addressed in the Geneva convention. My favorite part of that episode, and granted I do find it difficult to watch. I don't relish those aspects of torture, don't enjoy the portrayal, is close to the end, when Aeryn snaps the neck of the spy. Girl hasn't lost her edge, and yes, she's praying to a god that she doesn't really believe in, but she's also looking at all of her options in order to protect herself and her child. Foxhole atheism, right? I don't see that as weakness, but as another interesting element of her character, holding onto old stories and myths, willing to address them out of need.

I also find the concept of a child interestingly representative from John's perspective, and not just for the obvious reasons. Granted, my viewpoints and understanding are hugely, heavily influenced by [livejournal.com profile] rubberneck's Little Acorns because it answers my questions, my issues and speculations thoroughly and beautifully and never makes it easy, nor less true.

However, the concept of a child means a lot of things to John. A continuation of himself, immortality, someone to love and raise, but it's also a huge risk, a huge weight of responsability. A child is something to protect, and I think Aeryn has a more practical view of having a child (says my brain without any evidence to support this:), but for John, it's a creature that he's bringing into the universe with absolutely no way of defending itself. That's a burden - on him, on Aeryn, on the crew, on Moya and Pilot - and it's also something that, from one potential perspective, his twin could do that he couldn't. Of course, there are a lot of rationales behind this concept, lots of ways to explain it away, to justify John's anger, his feelings of betrayal, his reactions and finally his joy. A child is a brand new start, a family of his own, and the child represents something similar to Aeryn.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that I don't see a pregnancy or having a child as a way to make a strong female character lesser. Many of the strongest women I know have or want children, and it's simply made them more fierce and more effective. Do I think it has to be a given? No. Farscape does a good job of showing that both options are workable, wanting or not wanting progeny. Chiana exhibits no desire for children, and we see nothing of a need for children in Zhaan or Noranti or Sikozu. But I don't think that a pregnancy robs Aeryn of any of her strength, and I don't think that the writers did a bad job of addressing the pregancy or potential child in terms of characterization. Yeah, Season 4 Aeryn wasn't exactly the same woman, but she still exhibited plenty of strength and skill and determination, as well as new facets of her character in the way that she tried to deal with John, in the choices she made in order to survive. Do I think they were all good choices? Not so much. Do I think that she acted out of charcter, mmm, not so much there either. The character has never held onto secrets, and now she's guarding a slew of them, as well as trying to rebuild a life that she has decided she wants. That brings with it change (and yes, I know, I'm willing to forgive a host of faults in Aeryn because I adore the character so strongly), I liked the growth, I liked the changes and the trepidation and the quiet and some of the uncertainty. And I also loved her determination to learn English, her need to be actively involved in things, and her continued strength and ferocity.

Again, I completely understand disliking how pregnancy is handled and addressed in genre TV, I understand the frustration of it's use to make a strong female character seem more vulnerable and the distaste for the manipulation of a characters reproductive health to gain sympathy or to torture that character further. I watched X-Files lovingly and with passion almost equal to my adoration of Farscape, and yes, I was less than thrilled with much of the baby storyline. But at the same time, I also felt that much of it was well developed and well done. (And that much of it was absurd, it varied by episode and time, but up to Season 8, I was pretty damned intrigued. 'Course, I also was perfectly content to let [livejournal.com profile] fialka's brilliant Arizona Highways answer Scully's reproductive issues. That was an answer I was happy with (even as I bawled through it:).

However, I don't think that baby and pregnancy automatically has to equal weakness, and I'm not convinced that it did in Season 4. I also don't think that it lessens the female lead. If John's thinking of Aeryn only in terms of being the mother of his child, well, dude, I don't think that it's a position that can be justified, and nor do I particularly think that's how it played out. If that's the direction the mini takes, well, yeah, I'll be disappointed. If it addresses Aeryn's reaction to her child, John's reaction to a potential child, well, that won't disappoint me at all. And well, yeah, okay, there's a part of me that's a sap and wants Aeryn and Crichton to get married and have babies. But I never want that at the expense of saving the world, and nor do I think that's what has to happen.

Afterall, Farscape has already seen one difficult pregnancy, labor and parenting. Moya and Talyn were a brilliant example of a troubled parent relationship, one filled with love and anger, fear and misunderstanding and finally, forgiveness. I think that says a lot about the skill with which the writers can handle the issue of a pregancy and a child, and I at least, am going to rely on that background:)

Maybe we're too used to being disappointed, I don't know. Perhaps my expectations, or my wishes are different, I just don't know. Or maybe, I just love my show despite it's flaws, and am just so excited for more cracked up candy that I'm willing to justify any potential moments of displeasure, and overlook flaws that other people see more clearly. Any and all of those things are potentially true, and I'm pretty okay with that.

Finally, [livejournal.com profile] crankygrrl's going to Paris tomorrow. For 10 days!! What will I do without her for that long.

Date: 2004-10-13 12:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenlev.livejournal.com
very well said. one of the things i've adored about farscape is that 'they' don't compromise the strengths of the characters- male or female. and they aren't perfect, they have weaknesses too. but either way, aeryn has been shown to grow and change in relationship to others. the characters are shown as full whole beings; they have done an amazing job of that from the beginning.

what you said here: "I don't think that baby and pregnancy automatically has to equal weakness," is dead on. and your description of moya and talyn is well referenced. the people who make this show see the characters as complex, layered, and more than just one aspect of the role they play. or experience they have. i trust that will continue.

as i was reading your post i was reminded of a scene in 'we're so screwed'...i think it's part three. aeryn crosses in front of john when someone starts to get in his face. actually i think there are multiple examples of this. claudia black does this perfectly. just a subtle movement and step carrying so much threat and assertiveness. so much strength at the core of aeryn that i see as only being enhanced by what happens next. hopefully this makes some sort of sense. it's really stream of farscape-squeee-consciousness at this point. ;)

farscape is the only show i've ever seen that i've never felt disapointed by. something about it just *clicked* in my brain like nothing else ever has. well, except for the john crowley book "engine summer" but that's a story for another day. ;)

ps. as for only being distracted by pretty boys who have "been in space on tv". oh yeah, kind of hard to settle after i've seen john crichton or daniel jackson in action. *veg*

Date: 2004-10-13 05:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
farscape is the only show i've ever seen that i've never felt disapointed by. something about it just *clicked* in my brain like nothing else ever has.

Exactly. Even when I'm fully capable of seeing the issues or problems that other viewers and fans have with certain storylines or characters, I just pretty much love it unabashedly, incapable of doing real, thoughtful analysis thorough the giddy joy:)

Date: 2004-10-13 09:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenlev.livejournal.com
heh. yup, those are the words "giddy joy". it struck me from the first episode all the way through to the end. i had some of that with babylon 5 and star trek next generation, and i love stargate. but as much as i love those shows i have an assessing lense firmly in place.

i think that farscape answered so many of my questions and ideas and needs regarding story telling and science fiction that i am willing to accept all that it is without feeling dismayed; warts and all as they say. it's kind of nice and also a relief that i can feel that way about something. usually that's reserved for a few books, some music, a few movies.....it's a rare thing in this world. *g*

Date: 2004-10-13 02:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] life-on-queen.livejournal.com
Finally, crankygrrl's going to Paris tomorrow. For 10 days!! What will I do without her for that long.

Macrame.

luv you too, hon

Date: 2004-10-13 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee! I know you're already on that plane, but have a fabulous time! And be safe.

Date: 2004-10-13 05:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
You are here, you are! How much time do I have left to bug you?

Date: 2004-10-13 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] life-on-queen.livejournal.com
'bout two and a half hours...

Date: 2004-10-13 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee. I should take full advantage then, huh?

Date: 2004-10-13 07:13 pm (UTC)

Date: 2004-10-13 03:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simplystars.livejournal.com
*cough*writemoreCitrine*cough*

Date: 2004-10-13 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee - thanks babe:) Hope you're feeling better:)

Date: 2004-10-13 04:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brynnmck.livejournal.com
Excellent points, all. This is all very interesting to me, because I came to the show very late, and so I missed the vast majority of fannish discussion about it, and I'm somewhat at a loss as to what people objected to so much in S4, particularly about Aeryn. You say: changes and the trepidation and the quiet and some of the uncertainty, so I get the idea that part of the issue is with Aeryn being perceived as "weaker" in S4 than she was previously... I can see that, to an extent, but I also think that sort of thing would be completely in character for someone undergoing as fundamental a shift in perspective as Aeryn is. To me, Aeryn in S4 is much the same as Aeryn on Talyn, only the the transition was smoother there because at that point, she didn't really know yet how much she had to lose... knowing that, and choosing it anyway, as she does in S4, is much more evidence to me of strength than of weakness. Yeah, she has moments of uncertainty, especially in the early going when John won't have anything to do with her, but it's easy for Aeryn to be the PK Tough Chick--it's much, much harder for her to allow even a tiny bit of vulnerability to show, and that kind of emotional strength coupled with her physical strength makes her seem pretty damn kick-ass to me. And one of the things about S4 that was so gratifying to me is that by the end (the last two parts of WSS and Bad Timing), she is so supremely confident and centered and whole, and it's beautiful to see. She's finally stopped fighting all (or most of) her internal battles, and she can devote all her strength and energy toward defending the people and things she loves.

In terms of her relationship with John, "child receptacle" or no, I can't see him ever doing anything other than worshipping her for the awesome woman that she is. Again, one of the great things about the last few eps of S4 is seeing them finally figure it out, and seeing how seamlessly they work together and complement each other. To me it seems a very equal partnership, and I think that's what we're supposed to see--as you pointed out, even though Aeryn is somewhat in the background in WSS, I love that the writers made a point of how she was the one who scared off Akhna(sp?), who "scares the crap" out of John. Aeryn's been the center of John's crazy off-center universe almost since the beginning; with the child, I think his center is just growing a little bigger, not shifting away from her. There is no doubt in my mind that she would whup his ass if he tried anything of the kind, and he knows it, and we know it, and the writers know it, and I just can't imagine that changing.

I think the negative reaction about the baby thing must have more to do with the clumsy way it's been handled in the past than with the way that Farscape has handled it (I suppose I have to add "so far" as an addendum there, but I can't imagine the mini is going to be so vastly different). Farscape has been, like all shows I love, about the creation of family--what's more natural than a literal example of that? As you pointed out, John and Aeryn's interest in becoming parents is hardly without precedent (John willing to give up everything so that his child would have a father in LATP, Aeryn becoming a surrogate mother to Talyn, even Aeryn having children and grandchildren in The Locket). You make these points above a lot clearer than I'm doing now, actually. :) And what better way for Aeryn to show her complete rejection of the Peacekeeper life than to have a baby out of love? And you can be damn sure she's going to utterly kick the ass of anything and anyone who gets in the way of that. As you said, fierce motherly instinct, in someone already so fierce... I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in her way.

Oh my god, the rest of this comment is too long for LJ to accept it... if I were smart, I would just stop here, but... must... discuss... Farscape...

Continued...

Date: 2004-10-13 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brynnmck.livejournal.com
Just to wrap things up...

On a metaphorical level, the baby is also an excellent illustration of how much John and Aeryn have changed, and how they've truly met in the middle and created something that's part of both of them. On an even more metaphorical level, since to me Farscape is such a supreme example of modern myth, it makes total sense to me that a myth would end with (or at least incorporate, since we don't know if this is the end yet) that continuation/affirmation of life. I remember my Shakespeare professor drumming it into us that weddings and children at the end of the comedies are about the affirmation of life, and so it works for me on that level, too, Farscape being the comidramatragiscifimythfairytale that it is. :)

So, if the mini is, as reports seem to indicate, about John and Aeryn trying to have their baby in the midst of a galactic war, I guess I just don't see how that's so different than what the entire show has been about: trying to right whatever wrongs in the universe (their fault and otherwise) that are preventing them from settling down and having some peace with the people they love (and by "they," I mean the whole crew, not just John and Aeryn). To me, this is another example of how Farscape is different than most other shows of its kind--I can't imagine most heroes (I'm thinking of Buffy and Angel here, for example) abandoning their heroic duties and becoming normal people; they'd cease to be themselves. Plus, for them, the fight never really ends. But the Moya crew aren't fighting evil--from the beginning, they've just being trying to get the hell home without getting killed in the process. Yes, John has responsibilities now that he has to take care of, but they're the sort that can actually be resolved, eventually (or at least he can find a way to extricate himself from the absolute center of the conflict). And there's no doubt in my mind that when that day comes, he'd like nothing better than to find a likely out-of-the-way planet somewhere, land Moya there, and surround himself with the people he loves. It's just that this other crap keeps getting in the way.

So, in short, John and Aeryn, married and having a baby: totally OK by me, and Aeryn still utterly kicks ass. However, I am a gigantic sap, so that may be influencing me a bit. :)

A new record for wordiness here, I think... sorry, Thea. Feel free to delete if you like. :)

Re: Continued...

Date: 2004-10-13 06:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee - no interest in deleting. I love reading this:) You're always welcome to comment to your heart's content:)

So, in short, John and Aeryn, married and having a baby: totally OK by me, and Aeryn still utterly kicks ass. However, I am a gigantic sap, so that may be influencing me a bit. :)

Yup, that pretty much sums it up. Although, I seriously doubt it will be that easy, but seeing them trying to accomplish this is still a story I want to see unfold:)

Re: Continued...

Date: 2004-10-13 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenlev.livejournal.com
very well said. and i like this: "comidramatragiscifimythfairytale". i think that it's very true that their quest has been for a safe harbour/home....and even though moya represents that....she and pilot are also looking for the same thing.....

despite their ambivalence. they see the need for their actions. they also recognize their own flaws. i could talk or write about this pretty much forever. it's got that many amazing layers. counting the minutes until sunday.....and pretty much just grateful that the commitment of the people who make this show matches the committment of the fans. and not just to the continuation of the story, but to the truth of the story. *bg*

Re: Continued...

Date: 2004-10-13 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brynnmck.livejournal.com
Thanks for taking the time to make it through all that. :) I agree, I could just talk about this stuff forever... and I have total faith in the creative powers behind the show, because they haven't let me down in any major way at any time. And over 88 episodes, that's pretty impressive.

I also loved what you said above: farscape answered so many of my questions and ideas and needs regarding story telling and science fiction. That's exactly how I feel. It's just so perfect, all of it. It's the heroic journey(s) I've always wanted to see. Not that they don't have their missteps, but for me, it's always more "that episode was kind of lame" than "that's not true to the story/characters." I think this may be the reason I've never written any Farscape fanfic, nor had the slightest desire to... it's perfect just how it is, why would I want to put my oar in? Of course, this doesn't stop me from worshiping at the feet of Thea's fic :), but still--I love canon just the way it is.

Re: Continued...

Date: 2004-10-13 10:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Of course, this doesn't stop me from worshiping at the feet of Thea's fic :), but still--I love canon just the way it is.

Hee. Up, up, no worshipping. I will say that my love for the cannon itself is what made me want to write fic for the show. I just wanted more, and when I couldn't contain the influx of ideas, I just had to write them down. I think I'm pretty true to canon, despite the rampant amount of sex I write about, because the 88 episodes are the things that I love, the story they've told.

And I love the other writers who take that, and can go anywhere with it. The writers I love are the ones who remain true to the story, even if they deviate from canon or time or whatever.

Re: Continued...

Date: 2004-10-13 10:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brynnmck.livejournal.com
Yes, you are absolutely true to canon (in terms of character if not always events), and that's one of the things I love most about your writing. I pretty much don't read fic that isn't. Also, as a writer, staying true to the characters, getting inside their heads and understanding them, is half the fun for me. I may not always succeed, but I try.

But back to your fic: you write so eloquently, and everyone is so note-perfect in terms of character, and that's why I love to read it. (Well, that and the sex. :)

Re: Continued...

Date: 2004-10-13 11:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee - Thanks, hon:)

pretty much don't read fic that isn't Yup, I'm so, so with you there.

Re: Continued...

Date: 2004-10-13 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenlev.livejournal.com
my pleasure. it's so great to be able to discuss this amazing show. the wonderful writers who are able to imagine further layers do it justice. it's great to have a show that fulfills it's potential so well. i feel lucky to be able to read the gorgeous writing hereabouts in LJ-land.*G*

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